Interview with Lee Sojin on Young Women’s Suicidal Thoughts
By Park Ju-yeon
Published: January 22, 2024
Translated by Julie Leigh
The rising suicide rates among
women in their 20s is no longer a new revelation. The Ministry of Health and
Welfare’s White Paper on Suicide Prevention reports a year-over-year surge of
25.5% in 2019, followed by a 16.5% increase in 2020. This trend stands in stark
contrast to other age groups, which have either seen decreases or only slight
increases in their suicide rates.
In response to this trend,
Slap, a gender-focused YouTube channel run by The Hankyoreh, released a
video in 2020 titled “A Quiet Massacre Has Begun Again,” spotlighting the
escalating suicide rates among young women. Upon viewing the video at that
time, researcher Lee Sojin thought, “It’s about time this issue comes to light.
Finally, it’s getting the attention it deserves.” Three years later, in
December 2023, Ms. Lee published a book entitled Women Wishing to Evaporate,
with May Books as the publisher. The book’s subtitle is A Study on Young
Women’s Suicidal Thoughts.
Researcher Lee Sojin, the author of Women Wishing
to Evaporate: A Study on Young Women’s Suicidal Thoughts, published by May
Books. (Provided by Lee Sojin)
In the prologue, Lee Sojin
observes, “In Korean society at this time, there are very few women my age who
have not considered suicide.” She includes herself among those who have.
Drawing from her personal experience, she connected with other young women,
listening intently to 21 individuals battling suicidal thoughts. After
gathering their stories, she carefully organized and analyzed the data,
ultimately using 19 of these cases in her study.
Why do young women, often
described as being in the prime of their lives, “wish to evaporate”? What
drives them to such a crisis? What possible solutions exist? This book adopts a
multifaceted approach to illuminate the issues that overwhelm young women,
placing their narratives at the forefront. As one delves into its pages, it
becomes increasingly apparent that Korea’s low birth rate is merely one facet
of a broader societal problem. There’s a pressing need for greater attention to
the real stories of young women experiencing suicidal thoughts. I interviewed
the person who is bringing these stories to light: Lee Sojin.
- How did you begin this study?
I was searching for a topic for
my thesis in graduate school when I stumbled upon a video by Slap titled “A
Quiet Massacre Has Begun Again.” Watching it, I didn’t find it strange;
instead, I felt like it was about time this issue came to light. What puzzled
me was why it hadn’t received more attention sooner. But I hadn’t planned to
research this topic because, to me, the reasons behind it seemed obvious.
However, that clarity seemed to be unique to me. I remember discussing it with
some older female scholars, expecting them to understand why an increase in
suicide among young women was predictable, but they didn’t see it that way.
This made me realize that perhaps my perspective was more unique than I thought.
Encouragement from those around me to explore this issue further led me to
start my research.
- The book is divided into
three parts, with the first titled “How Does Family Tie Down Young Women?”
Starting with family issues seems significant. After all, young women in their
20s are adults and should be seen as independent entities. Why do family issues
play such a central role in your book?
I believe that, compared to
other countries, familism in Korea is more intense. It goes beyond simply putting
family first. It’s about the belief that invading someone’s privacy is
tolerable if it's for the family’s sake, and that one must do anything for the
family. This prompted me to delve into the family backgrounds of my subjects. I
was curious about the impact their families had on them. The reason I had the
book start with family issues is that the participants talked so much about
their families when discussing their experiences. When asked about the first
time they considered suicide, most said it was during their youth. Given this,
it’s clear that family issues are too significant to ignore.
It’s quite simple, really. If you
assume young women consider suicide solely because they struggle to secure
stable employment, this reason could apply to most young women—but most women
don’t contemplate suicide, right? This indicates there must be additional
underlying reasons. For young women, while they do receive support from their
families, these same families can also be a significant source of stress. This
was true in my case as well.
- As someone born in the 1980s,
I was quite surprised to learn that individuals born in the 1990s are still
facing sexism within their families. I mean, some parents of the 1990s belong
to Generation X… right? Yet, it seems these parents are pretty similar to their
own parents. This revelation was particularly shocking to me.
Sexism, which was once overt,
has become more subtle today. Previous generations of parents openly preferred
their sons, allocating resources to them and expecting daughters to support
their brothers. Nowadays, there’s a growing awareness that such biases shouldn’t
be taken for granted. However, these practices persist, which, in a way, makes
the situation worse. In the past, when daughters questioned why their brothers
were treated better, parents would justify their actions by openly stating
their preference for sons. Now, parents deny any favoritism, insisting they
love their daughters equally. Yet, they still expect daughters to make the same
sacrifices as in the past.
Additionally, unlike previous
generations who lacked the vocabulary to articulate their experiences with
sexism, we now have the language to do so. What used to be dismissed as merely
uncomfortable, without understanding why, can now be clearly identified and
expressed. As a result, the same acts of inequality and injustice become even
more distressing for young women.
A page from the second chapter, titled “Caregiving
Crisis: How Families Exploit Daughters’ Time,” of the book Women Wishing to
Evaporate.
- The book addresses the
caregiving crisis in addition to family issues. Although stories of teenagers
and young adults taking on caregiving roles are starting to surface, the topic
isn’t frequently explored within young adult discussions. Many young adults
think that if they decide not to get married, caregiving won’t be a concern for
them. Given this context, choosing to highlight caregiving issues represents a
significant decision. Was this a deliberate focus from the beginning?
Actually, I wasn’t initially
aware of the caregiving aspect. It came to my attention, though, when two of my
interviewees shared their experiences of caring for their grandparents. Other
participants also spoke about the stress of being expected to take on the
responsibility of caring for their aging parents. This theme of caregiving
emerged as a significant issue through listening to their stories.
Among those interviewed,
especially from lower economic backgrounds, there was a significant worry about
the duty of caring for their parents, and for some, the daunting prospect of
doing it alone. This worry was much greater if their parents didn’t own their
home. In Korea, it’s common for parents not to share their financial details
with their children, often offering vague assurances like, “Live your life;
we’ll get by.” Yet, without the security of home ownership or a reliable
income, young women’s fears about the responsibility of looking after their
parents grow considerably.
- The second part of the book focuses
on labor and employment, which I see as the most critical issues for young
women. What’s your perspective on the current situation regarding labor and
employment for young women?
People used to say all jobs
were equally important even while there were certain discrimination and stigma against
some jobs. But nowadays, mass media and social media show us only some kinds of
work. For example, they emphasize that you’ve got to have a job that’s all
professional, something that lets you climb the ladder and helps you grow
personally—so that’s what people dream of. But not all types of work are like
that, right? What
I’ve been reminded of yet again during the interviews is that there’s a serious
lack of promising, “career” jobs for women.
In roles where women make up the
majority of workers, career progression often hits a roadblock due to age—not
because of marriage, pregnancy, or childbirth, but simply age. Take flight
attendants, for example. While foreign airlines may hire women regardless of
looks or body type, in Korea, you’ll find that there’s a specific age range
that’s preferred. I once asked a flight attendant if they typically transition
to office roles at a certain age. She said most of them quit. This is because
office positions are scarce, giving them no choice but to leave the field altogether.
I recently spoke with a female
web designer who has a decade of experience. She mentioned preferring to
downplay her years in the industry because companies often view long-term
workers as being out of touch with current design trends. I think roles like
these exploit the youthfulness of women. Women find it challenging to advance
their careers, and even when they do make significant strides, their
achievements are not fully recognized.
- Did any of your interviewees
express a lack of fear or even optimism about their work and employment
prospects?
Yes, there was one. She held a
promising and secure position as a web developer and was genuinely proud of her
job because her achievements were well recognized. However, securing such a
position often comes down to chance. Even with a similar educational background
and job preparation, the way you enter the job market can dictate whether you
find yourself in stable employment or moving from one insecure job to another.
Recently, I interviewed someone
who went to a private academy hoping to learn web development. But the academy
nudged her towards a course in web publishing instead. It’s known that,
generally, publishers don’t have as good working conditions as developers. So
why the switch? They said that web publishing was a better fit for women. When
talking about workplace sexism, we often say, “The glass ceiling is the problem. It’s the
pinnacle of gender discrimination,” but my interviews and research have
shown me that a more pervasive form of discrimination is the funneling of women
into specific sectors. The concept of the glass ceiling mainly pertains to
large companies and doesn’t quite capture the challenges women face in small
and medium-sized businesses.
The cover of Women Wising to Evaporate by Lee
Sojin, published by May Books © Ilda
- Reading the book brought back
memories of how, in my generation, we would send out résumés dozens of times
before finally landing a job. It got me thinking, “Has finding a job become
even more challenging today?”
Things have definitely changed.
Back when we thirtysomethings were in our 20s, we were often warned about the
long and tough road to employment. Yet, many of us in my generation took it
easy during our freshman and sophomore years in university. It wasn’t until our
junior or senior years that we began to seriously work on building our
qualifications. What surprised me during the interviews, though, was hearing
that some students’ parents were so involved that they even made their first-year
class schedules. Those who began preparing [for the workforce] right from their
freshman year often had parents from the middle class or above. These parents
were financially secure and didn’t need to worry about making ends meet.
Moreover, these parents usually held management positions in desirable
companies and understood exactly what those companies looked for in candidates.
Even if they didn't, they had the connections to ensure their children could
make well-informed preparations, essentially leveraging their social capital
for networking. This head start makes their preparation for employment much smoother.
In contrast, those without such advantages often have to work to pay their
tuition fees and only start their career preparations in their junior year,
creating a gap that now seems insurmountable.
- When you talk about “labor
insecurity” in the book, you use the term “labor without a future,” which
sounds quite alarming. Can you explain why you see this issue as so serious?
When young women wonder, “What kind
of job should I pursue?” they find themselves limited to a small range of
options. Moreover,
in these positions, the prospect of working until retirement age seems
unlikely. I spoke with 21 interviewees,
all of whom are employed in similar fields. Considering the vast number of
career opportunities available, the fact that these 21 individuals hold jobs in
such closely related areas was particularly striking to me.
What they all had in common was
the observation that individuals who don’t work as hard, who take their pay and
pursue their hobbies and think, ‘I’ll just play a little office politics to
secure my position,’ tend to last longer in companies compared to those who
work diligently. Interestingly,
it seems that the hard workers are assigned more challenging tasks, while the
less diligent employees get the easier tasks. In essence, it’s a system that
burns out the hard workers, ultimately pushing them to leave.
- In the third chapter, you
delve into the anxieties faced by young women, with a section analyzing the
decision not to get married and its impact on their labor. You note that,
unlike previous generations, women today don’t see marriage as a necessary part
of their life’s progression. In the past, marriage could serve as a strategy
for women to sidestep labor risks, but now, with many rejecting this path,
these labor risks extend throughout their lives. Could you elaborate on this
observation?
The concept of “labor risks”
here isn’t about objective threats. Imagine two people in identical
circumstances: one might find these employment-related risks daunting due to
anxiety about work, while the other, possibly supported by family wealth, might
not perceive these risks as threatening at all. Similarly, it’s not that
marriage completely eliminates work-related anxieties; rather, it shifts a
woman’s focus in life to other matters. Through marriage, pregnancy,
childbirth, and child-rearing, her attention is drawn away from career
anxieties towards family responsibilities, potentially easing her concerns
about work. However, since many young women today are opting out of marriage, I
think they will inevitably continue to feel anxious about making ends meet and
finding suitable employment.
This is not to say it’s
problematic for women to choose not to marry. My point is that their decision
is often driven by anxiety. The declining birthrates and the rise in suicidal thoughts
among young women are, in fact, two manifestations of the same underlying
issue: the quality of the world we inhabit. If someone perceives the world as a
place where they don’t wish to live, why would they choose to marry or have
children? Our focus should be on understanding why young women are opting out
of marriage and childbirth, and the circumstances they find themselves in.
Charts showing suicide rates among different age
groups in 2018-2020, from the Ministry of Health and Welfare's White Paper on
Suicide Prevention for the years 2021 and 2022. The yellow-highlighted sections
pertain to women in their twenties; the first two columns in the section state
the number of suicides in each given year per 100,000 people, the third column
states the change in that number between the two years, and the fourth
expresses that change as a percentage. ©Ilda
- It’s disheartening to see
young women so focused on their own abilities and efforts, blaming themselves
for every failure.
During my research, I deeply
felt this. In Korea, societal success is highly valued, and such success is
primarily measured through one's career. For example, if I were to tell my
parents I'm considering leaving my PhD program to start a lunch box shop,
they'd be furious (laughs). The truth is, if we view work simply as a means to
make a living, there’s a wide range of things we could pursue. However, certain
jobs are looked down upon because choosing them means our families, peers, and
society might not view us as successful.
- You’re critical of neoliberal
feminism, which promotes the idea of “Be successful.” It makes me wonder why
messages like this have been so well-received among young women, while so-called
“ggwon feminism [a derogatory term for a type feminism that is seen as
overly concerned with other social justice movements],” which calls for
solidarity with other marginalized groups, isn’t viewed in the same way?
I believe that young women who
support neoliberal feminism come from the middle class. Moreover, there’s currently
a societal expectation to hide any financial hardships and, instead, display
signs of affluence. This trend could very well have an impact on their
viewpoints as well.
I’ve also sensed a kind of
fatigue among young women towards feminism. They understand and agree with its
ideals, yet they question its real impact on their lives. They’re also tired of
things like ‘mirroring’ [creating gender-swapped parodies of misogynistic
texts].
Furthermore, I believe that
civic organizations have not successfully acquired the language of the internet,
and I feel partly responsible for that. On the internet, only fast and
sensational content survives, but the language civic groups use is quite
different from that. Our movement strategies should probably be rethought as
well.
I’m convinced that feminism and
capitalism are incompatible. The reason is, capitalism aligns closely with
patriarchy, creating a system that profits from this partnership. As long as
capitalism prevails, feminism cannot fully realize its objectives. Under
capitalism, it’s ultimately the wealthy women who experience freedom, while
those who aren’t wealthy continue to be exploited within this system. That’s
why I see it as crucial for feminist movements to persist in their critique of
this dynamic.
- In your author bio, it states
that you are focused on “researching gendered labor and the accumulation of
financial assets among the current young generation.” I’m intrigued to hear
more about what your upcoming research entails.
I’m interested in comparing
jobs dominated by men with those by women. To do this, I’m interviewing three
distinct groups: male web developers, female web developers, and female web
designers. Traditionally, web development was mostly male-dominated. However,
the labor shortage during the pandemic led the industry to recruit more women
developers. As a result, web developers in their 40s are mostly men, but among
those in their 20s, the gender distribution is now roughly fifty-fifty. Given
this context, my research will focus on understanding the differences between
these groups’ roles, investigating any existing pay disparities, analyzing the
financial products they prefer for asset accumulation, and identifying any
gender-specific trends in these areas.
- I’m really looking forward to
seeing the results. I also hope the insights from “Young Women Wishing to
Evaporate” gain widespread attention. Who do you hope will read it the most?
Young women! It’s important to
me that they know the tough times they’re going through aren’t their fault.
Blaming yourself just makes life feel even harder. I hope this book shows them
they’re not alone—lots of people are dealing with the same things. And I get
it, it’s hard, but sometimes, if it’s your family making things tough, you
might have to take a step back for your own good.
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